Thursday, May 17, 2007
Part II: Promoting Democracy?
Paul Saunder’s essay, “Learning to Appreciate France”, which appeared in the March/April 2007 issue of The National Interest, led to a number of comments that we will feature in the forthcoming issue.
Tom Carothers comes straight out of the gate with the assertion that "the notion that democracy promotion plays a dominant role in Bush policy is a myth." He goes on to note "The Bush push for democracy in the rest of the Arab world is halfhearted at best, and already receding." He concludes:
"The notion that the universal pursuit of freedom constitutes George Bush’s global compass is an enormous illusion. Of course there is some pro-democracy substance in Bush foreign policy beyond the partial push for democracy in the Middle East. The administration has exerted pressure for democratic change on several authoritarian regimes, using the bully pulpit, economic sanctions, and democracy aid. Such pressure has been directed at various governments, including those of Belarus, Burma, and Cuba, toward which the United States has no countervailing economic or security fish to fry. In several other cases the administration has exerted pressure on governments it views as security threats, such as those of Iran, North Korea, and Syria. In such cases, however, whatever pro-democracy interest lies behind such pressures is derivative of a security-driven regime change instinct."
Andrew Bacevich (and our condolences on the loss of his son in Iraq), Robert Merry, Amitai Etzioni and Wayne Merry also contribute to this discussion as well.
Tom Carothers comes straight out of the gate with the assertion that "the notion that democracy promotion plays a dominant role in Bush policy is a myth." He goes on to note "The Bush push for democracy in the rest of the Arab world is halfhearted at best, and already receding." He concludes:
"The notion that the universal pursuit of freedom constitutes George Bush’s global compass is an enormous illusion. Of course there is some pro-democracy substance in Bush foreign policy beyond the partial push for democracy in the Middle East. The administration has exerted pressure for democratic change on several authoritarian regimes, using the bully pulpit, economic sanctions, and democracy aid. Such pressure has been directed at various governments, including those of Belarus, Burma, and Cuba, toward which the United States has no countervailing economic or security fish to fry. In several other cases the administration has exerted pressure on governments it views as security threats, such as those of Iran, North Korea, and Syria. In such cases, however, whatever pro-democracy interest lies behind such pressures is derivative of a security-driven regime change instinct."
Andrew Bacevich (and our condolences on the loss of his son in Iraq), Robert Merry, Amitai Etzioni and Wayne Merry also contribute to this discussion as well.
Comments:
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Carothers is right--the places the US pushes hardest for democracy are the ones where either there are no interests to lose or where the US wants to get rid of the current regime. And if what replaces it is not democracy, well, too bad, right?
# posted by 
: 8:28 PM
: 8:28 PM
Again - and I know full well that there will be nothing but dim silence to this commentary, - but all the socalled politirati and intelligencia MUST first find the courage and integrity within themselves to define exactly what is this thing called democracy.
Because the freakish perversion of dcmocracy pimped by, and militarily enforced soveriegn nations by the fascist warmongers, profiteers, and pathologcal liars in the Bush government is tyranny, and totalitarianism - NOT DEMOCRACY!
Define democracy and get back to me. But do not pretend to defend anything like the fascist tyranny, and wanton slaughter and profiteering pimped by the Bush government as having ANYTHING to do with democracy in the traditional sense of the word.
By defining the word and the term democracy (which none of the socalled experts dare, or have the courage to do) would condemn the Bush government to exposure as pathological liars, and perverters and betrayers of everything America formally defended as democracy.
"Deliver us from evil!"
Because the freakish perversion of dcmocracy pimped by, and militarily enforced soveriegn nations by the fascist warmongers, profiteers, and pathologcal liars in the Bush government is tyranny, and totalitarianism - NOT DEMOCRACY!
Define democracy and get back to me. But do not pretend to defend anything like the fascist tyranny, and wanton slaughter and profiteering pimped by the Bush government as having ANYTHING to do with democracy in the traditional sense of the word.
By defining the word and the term democracy (which none of the socalled experts dare, or have the courage to do) would condemn the Bush government to exposure as pathological liars, and perverters and betrayers of everything America formally defended as democracy.
"Deliver us from evil!"
What is democracy? Is it adherence to procedures and elections? Is it ruling on behalf of the people and looking out for their welfare? Is it a land of do-as-you please?
The US ends up with the government it deserves. If the people want to be fooled, so be it. Also explains why Putin has 80 percent plus approval ratings too.
The US ends up with the government it deserves. If the people want to be fooled, so be it. Also explains why Putin has 80 percent plus approval ratings too.
# posted by : 3:46 PM
: 3:46 PM
Tony Foresta:
Here's a good test. Have you gotten a knock on your door at midnight because of any of the posts you've written about the fascist warmongers? Been taken off to interrogation anywhere? If yes, then you aren't living in a democracy. If no, and if your power is on, your internet connection works and you haven't been censored, then perhaps you are living in a democracy.
Here's a good test. Have you gotten a knock on your door at midnight because of any of the posts you've written about the fascist warmongers? Been taken off to interrogation anywhere? If yes, then you aren't living in a democracy. If no, and if your power is on, your internet connection works and you haven't been censored, then perhaps you are living in a democracy.
# posted by : 3:48 PM
: 3:48 PM
The two horrors you mention have thankfully not happened,.. yet! But, I could easily within this fascist governments fascist mandate be labelled an "evildoer" and without evidence, due process, just cause, the right to an attorney, or to be charged with a crime, or the right to trial be disappeared to Gitmo.
I have in truth been blackecballed and black listed from employment opportunities/
I have been part of protests in New York (I have video that was part of a project called 60 camera's against the war that was in an exhibit in the Whitney Museum) where the fascist police state in full battle regalia and on horse back attacked (unprovoked an unarmed and PEACEFUL crowd of protesters and pepper sprayed women, young children, and yours truly, I have had my voting rights undermined and effectively nullified by partisan cronies and sworn defenders of the fascist in the Bush government forcing flawed and easily hacked evoting systems on my district WITHOUT PAPER TRAILS - I was, and continue to be ruthlessly slimed as an anti American unpatriotic lunatic communist giving aid and comfort to the enemy for stating FACTS and TRUTHs that have longs since been proven accurate and factual
And lastly and sadly - I am an America who has witnessed our socalled democracy devolve into a state wherein the government pimps a festering litany of lie's and partisan conjurings repeatedly and insistently to the American people, spy's on Americans (especially people like me who question, challenge, dissent with, and/or oppose this fascist government's fascist machinations) with out due process, just cause, or court ordered warrants, wherein the fascists cabals in our government sanction torture, rendition, and the dismissal of centuries of habeaus corpus legal precedents, wherein the government hurled our daughters and sons to an ill concieved woefully unaccounted for war of choice based on a festering litany of deceptions, hype, exaggerations, and pathological lies, wherein the fascist cabals in the government profiteer wantonly in and from the process of this nefarious excercise - wherein the socalled MSM are partisan and complicit parrots of the fascist in the government, on the government payroll, shilling the partyline, and refusing to question, challenge, investigate, examine or often even mention (the Comey testimony is the perfect example) the Bush government untoward, despicable, deceptive, conniving, and fascist machinations.
This is NOT democracy!
So dance away from the question to your cold craven hard hearts desire conservative realist 3:48pm - you FAIL to provide a definition of what actually is this thing called democracy, and you cowardly ignore and apologize for the quite evident and systemic perversion and betrayal of everything that once stood for democracy in America.
America is no longer a democracy in the tradition sense of the word, and is fast devolving into a fascist totalitarian dictatorship wherein select cabals operate above, beyond, outside, and in total disdain of the rule of law, the laws of the land, and the Constitution and the will and best interests of the people they are sworn to serve.
I have in truth been blackecballed and black listed from employment opportunities/
I have been part of protests in New York (I have video that was part of a project called 60 camera's against the war that was in an exhibit in the Whitney Museum) where the fascist police state in full battle regalia and on horse back attacked (unprovoked an unarmed and PEACEFUL crowd of protesters and pepper sprayed women, young children, and yours truly, I have had my voting rights undermined and effectively nullified by partisan cronies and sworn defenders of the fascist in the Bush government forcing flawed and easily hacked evoting systems on my district WITHOUT PAPER TRAILS - I was, and continue to be ruthlessly slimed as an anti American unpatriotic lunatic communist giving aid and comfort to the enemy for stating FACTS and TRUTHs that have longs since been proven accurate and factual
And lastly and sadly - I am an America who has witnessed our socalled democracy devolve into a state wherein the government pimps a festering litany of lie's and partisan conjurings repeatedly and insistently to the American people, spy's on Americans (especially people like me who question, challenge, dissent with, and/or oppose this fascist government's fascist machinations) with out due process, just cause, or court ordered warrants, wherein the fascists cabals in our government sanction torture, rendition, and the dismissal of centuries of habeaus corpus legal precedents, wherein the government hurled our daughters and sons to an ill concieved woefully unaccounted for war of choice based on a festering litany of deceptions, hype, exaggerations, and pathological lies, wherein the fascist cabals in the government profiteer wantonly in and from the process of this nefarious excercise - wherein the socalled MSM are partisan and complicit parrots of the fascist in the government, on the government payroll, shilling the partyline, and refusing to question, challenge, investigate, examine or often even mention (the Comey testimony is the perfect example) the Bush government untoward, despicable, deceptive, conniving, and fascist machinations.
This is NOT democracy!
So dance away from the question to your cold craven hard hearts desire conservative realist 3:48pm - you FAIL to provide a definition of what actually is this thing called democracy, and you cowardly ignore and apologize for the quite evident and systemic perversion and betrayal of everything that once stood for democracy in America.
America is no longer a democracy in the tradition sense of the word, and is fast devolving into a fascist totalitarian dictatorship wherein select cabals operate above, beyond, outside, and in total disdain of the rule of law, the laws of the land, and the Constitution and the will and best interests of the people they are sworn to serve.
By defining this thing called democracy - in public for all to examine - it will become glaringly evident, that America under the fascist totalitarianism of the Bush government is no longer a democracy!
Hense the reason NO ONE DARES TO ARTICULATE what exactly is this thing called democracy!
Hense the reason NO ONE DARES TO ARTICULATE what exactly is this thing called democracy!
The test of any democracy is the transfer of power. Will Bush and Co. transfer it willingly?
# posted by : 10:26 AM
: 10:26 AM
The test of any democracy is the transfer of power. Will Bush and Co. transfer it willingly?
# posted by : 10:27 AM
: 10:27 AM
The "test of democracy" is one thing, defining it is another.
That said, I am all but convinced that the Bush government will conjure another 9/11likeevent just prior to the election, or hurl America into yet another ill-concieved costly, bloody, endless war, occupation, and attempted colonization of Iran, - declare martial law, suspend both the election and the Constitution on "national security grounds", and hammer the final nail in the coffin that will seel forever what little remains of America's once more perfect union, and permanently entrench the Bush governments fascist totalitarian dictatorship.
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That said, I am all but convinced that the Bush government will conjure another 9/11likeevent just prior to the election, or hurl America into yet another ill-concieved costly, bloody, endless war, occupation, and attempted colonization of Iran, - declare martial law, suspend both the election and the Constitution on "national security grounds", and hammer the final nail in the coffin that will seel forever what little remains of America's once more perfect union, and permanently entrench the Bush governments fascist totalitarian dictatorship.
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